Paul Harrison <harrison AT popmail PISTE dircon PISTE co PISTE uk> writes:
> Pantheism means equating the Universe with God, or considering the
> universe as divine. This definition does not say anything about what
> the Universe is like or what kinds of beings it contains. So belief
> in supernatural entities is, IMHO, compatible with pantheism.
Hi Paul, it's nice to see you here in Usenet too.
I'd say that relies heavily on the definition of "supernatural", which
seems to be very difficult to define well.
I would like to think that in pantheism, the Universe is all "natural", and
anything "supernatural" would mean that there is something outside the
Universe, i.e., outside the pantheist God.
Why? Let us consider the Christian God, who is transcendent, outside
and independent of his creation, the natural Universe. Therefore, the
God is supernatural (by almost any definition) in this dualistic
totality. Let us then expand the definition of the Universe to include
the previously transcendent God, thus saying that supernatural
(creator) and natural (creation-universe) exist in the same dualistic
totality. If we now try to become pantheist and call this dual
Universe the God, we get a God that consists of God plus the
creation-universe, which is panentheist view, not pantheist. Thus,
such world-view can't be pantheist.
Hmm, I hope this argument was at least a BIT coherent. Hmm...
I'm not sure if the above deduction works with other supernatural
entities than God. The universe could, of course, consist of two (or
more) "apparent" universes, and there could be life in both. But would
the alternate universes be "supernatural"? A matter of definition, I
suppose. I'd say not. I'd say that they would be just parallel natural
realities.
> Having said that, I personally do not believe in any supernatural
> entities of any kind, whether gods, faeries, disembodied spirits,
> wandering souls of the dead, hobgoblins, demons, gremlins,
> leprechauns or what have you.
I wouldn't define most of such entities as supernatural, but
"subnatural" spiritual beings that exist only in our thoughts, in our
material brains. Gods are often defined as parts or principles
(natural laws or phenomenae) of the universe.
Joseph Zorzin <redoak AT forestmeister PISTE com> wrote:
> I pretty much agree, except that I think "spirit" or consciousness
> is a fundamentally different item than matter/energy which are
> really the same thing according to Einstein's formula of
> E=MC2.
I don't see any reason why the consciousness could not be an emergent
feature of our material brains. It seems, according to the
neurological evidence, to be such. Why add an unnecessary entity (the
spirit-world)? Just cut such entities off with your razor. Clip clip.
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-- Marko Grönroos, magi AT iki PISTE fi (http://www.iki.fi/~magi/)
-- Evolutionary algorithm researchers do it with the fittest individuals --
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